What is the difference between the HOUSE cut and the TRADITIONAL cut?
Thick as Thieves offers two styles of cut, the house and the traditional. Fit-wise, both will fit the same, meaning that all suits are made to be worn slim fitting based on the wearer’s measurements.
The difference primarily lies with proportions and details. Please look at the following description.
A slightly more “fashion forward” cut with the following attributes:
- Slightly shorter jacket length from “normal” (based on wearer’s height). Approx 1 – 1.5″ longer than HOUSE CUT jacket length. In most cases the jacket will end about 2-3″ lower than the bottom of the sleeve (approx to the top of the thumb joint).
- Jacket ticket pocket (unless omitted by request) is made to overlap the main pocket that it sits above.
- Slimmer lapel (2″ wide notch lapel / 2.5″ wide peak lapel) on most jacket sizes, 2.25″ /3″ on larger sizes past 42.
- Trousers more fitted with a stronger taper to the hem from the thigh.
- Trouser pockets made with “frogmouth” pocket style.
More classically proportioned with the following attributes:
- Jacket length more standard, ending around the half-way point of wearer’s thumb when standing straight with arms to side. (Based on wearer’s height)
- Ticket pocket (unless omitted by request) is traditionally spaced above the main pocket, about 1/2″ gap between the two.
- Lapel width slightly wider than the house cut, at 2.5″ notch lapel / 3.5″ peak lapel on most sizes, 2.75″ / 4″ on larger sizes past 42.
- Trousers still tapered but not as aggressively as the house cut.
- Trouser pockets made with side slant/handwarmer pocket style.
Are suits full floating canvassed?
The canvassing on a suit are found along the front quarters and under lapels of the jacket, which give the jacket it’s shape and structure. Typically, off the rack and lesser priced suits are made with a fusing glue that is used to attach the canvas to the fabric. While fusing technology has come a long way, ultimately the fusing can age and deteriorate, and the glued on canvas can make the jacket wear stiffer and never mold to the wearer over time. We employ a sewn in full floating canvas which means there is no fusing glue used anywhere, and all of the canvassing is sewn to the fabric. Try the pinch test on the front of the jacket, using both hands, you will be able to separate the wool cloth from the canvas and can feel them separated when you gently pull them apart about an inch. If a jacket is fused you cannot separate the 2 layers since the canvas is completely glued to the wool.
Are the suits handmade?
Yes, all suits are made by a small tailoring firm, not a large factory, by experienced cutters and sewers after I set up the initial design and pattern sizing. All suits are hand made upon order from the cutting process, to sewing it together, and the finishing work (ie: lapel pick stitching, etc). All suits are made with full floating canvas so there is no fusing glue used anywhere.
How long does it take to have a suit made?
Generally, the timeframe from the time you place your order (which includes finalizing all details, and payment) to the time it mails out to you is approximately 3-4 weeks depending on how busy we are at that moment. If you need it sooner, it’s possible to arrange a “cut in front of line” option for a $60 surcharge. This will cut the leadtime down to about 2 weeks before it ships. Once your suit has mailed out we cannot take responsibility for the transit time incurred. Most orders within the continental USA will take 2-3 days (all orders are shipped via USPS priority mail with tracking). Orders placed outside of USA (Canada, Europe, Asia, etc), the delivery time is not something we can guarantee as there are many possible points that could create a delay (ie: customs clearance, the reliability of your country’s mail system etc) The timeframe only applies to the time that we mail your garment out to you, not the day that you will actually have it in hand.
Do you do rush orders?
Yes, a rush order is considered a finished timeframe of 1.5 – 2 weeks before it is mailed to you (and thereupon the appropriate transit time applies). Normally we do rush orders that have a “cut in front of line” surcharge, just to keep things fair for those who ordered before you and are diligently waiting for his own suit to be finished. The Cut in Front of Line surcharge is $60 on top of the suit price. We ship via USPS priority mail which is 2-3 days for most areas (next day if you are within LA county) which is included in the price of your suit. However if you need next day delivery via FedEx/UPS courier, we can arrange that at the cost of shipping. One caveat of rush orders is that if you are planning to wear your suit for a specific event, for example, the following day or two after you receive your suit, keep in mind that you will probably have to get some shipping wrinkles pressed, and if you require any adjustment tailoring, or in the rare case, there is some kind of major fit issue, you probably will not have time to sort that out, so a rush order for an event is oftentimes a “what comes out of the box is what you have to wear”, but we always try to get things right the first time so that you can wear your new suit right out of the box.
Please note: we do not offer rush orders outside of the USA, where delivery needs to be made before a specific date due to unforeseen delays that can occur when shipping overseas (ie: customs, transit delays etc)
How Do I Get Measured?
Due to the wildly inaccurate measurements we receive from those who went to a professional tailor, we feel you can do a very accurate SELF MEASUREMENT yourself with a tape measure and a friend. Make sure all measurements are taken snug, not tight, and definitely not loose. The fewer articles of clothing you measure over, the better. In general, wear a t shirt and underwear and measure over that for the most accuracy.
We recommend taking multiple sets of measurements just to make sure you are getting the same results each time. While having your chest measured, it is important to not be looking down, which is a natural reaction for most, to see what the tape is reading. Look straight ahead and stand naturally, and DO NOT over exaggerate your posture. Looking downward will result in a smaller than accurate measurement. Exaggerated postures will also create an inaccurate measurement as will excessively sucking in your gut.
If you do go to a tailor’s to get measured, we still recommend doing a set yourself and comparing the two. It’s amazing how different a tailor’s measure and your own self measure can result. And most of the time your measurement is actually the accurate one.
Why are tailors’ measurements so often inaccurate? Many pad the measurement since they are probably used to a looser fit being “correct”. Sometimes they give you an interpreted measurement, meaning rather than the raw measure off the body, they give you the size that the garment should have. If you do go to a tailor, make sure he is giving you raw measurements off the body, done snugly.
What if my Suit doesn’t fit?
This of course, is the bane of any online “sight unseen” MTM suit program. Given the plethora of variables involved in producing a suit, we feel that you should look at any online tailoring program that promises “a perfect fit” or anything like that, to be highly suspect and just marketing gimmickry. Just by its nature, any sight unseen MTM suit will have its share of risks involved. A good illustration over the many years we’ve met with clients, is that some guys, who measure the same from head to toe, and same height, can actually fit into different size suits from each other, even though on paper, they should be the same sizing. There are nuances to physiology/posture/etc that can create different fits for otherwise the same sized person. That said, we’ve gotten good at “reading minds” and sussing out the correct fitting for you just based on your measurements.
Secondly, we can only make based on measurements given so we ask those submitting measurements to be sure of them as much as possible. Ideally, TAKING A FEW SETS OF MEASUREMENTS for those who are novices at this is the best thing to do. This way you can see if you are getting consistent measurements without much discrepancy. Providing more info on other brands (jeans, suits, shirts etc) you wear is always helpful in getting a full picture of your build and proportions.
If you do not readily know your jacket sleeve length, we ask you to get nonfunctional sleeve cuffs that can be easily adjusted. Basically, if you have to ask how to measure sleeve length, then it’s better to get nonfunctional cuffs for your first suit. If you are adamant about having functional cuffs, we usually see what your provided sleeve length is, compare it to the average length for someone your height, and if there is a huge discrepancy we will point that out and see how you would like to proceed. One thing to keep in mind, it is actually possible to lengthen functional cuff sleeves up to 1″ longer (A new buttonhole will probably have to be cut/sewn to fill in the extra space), but most functional cuff sleeves cannot be shortened, other than maybe 1/4″ at most. So there is more margin of error to have it fit slightly too short, than too long.
Even with a MTM process (and even full bespoke), many finished suits may require fine tuning that can be accomplished with your local tailor. There is rarely such thing as “the perfect fit”, especially as everyone has a different image in mind when they think is this “perfect fit”.
I always recommend gentlemen to have their trouser inseam adjusted after receipt of suit. Most provide an inseam length that IMO will be too long. Depending on the shoes you wear, where the trouser waist sits on your hips, etc will all determine the correct inseam so it is possible to have different sets of trousers that look like they have the same inseam, but in reality can all be slightly different from each other. But it is the easiest/cheapest alteration to have done, and makes a big difference to how the suit silhouette looks.
If there is an obvious flaw in material or construction we will make sure you are properly sorted out and the problem fixed without any cost to you. If the problem is due to erroneous measurement on the client”s part, we will work with you to solve the problem at the least cost to you as possible. But we are not liable for blatantly erroneous measurements that are provided to us, resulting in an ill-fitting garment. Unfortunately that is the risk of a sight unseen MTO program.
At the end of the day, we do not want anyone to be disappointed or upset due to an ill fitting garment, and we will always go the extra mile to make sure you are completely satisfied, one way or another.
How do I care for my suit?
Firstly let’s talk about dry cleaning. Contrary to popular rhetoric, you should not dry clean your suit once a year, “just because”. If it is not visibly dirty/smelly, do not dry clean it if it’s not necessary. Dry Cleaning basically shortens the life of any garment that undergoes the process. If you have a small stain, try to spot clean using a damp rag, or even a magic eraser (spot test on an unseen interior section first to make sure the eraser doesn’t remove cloth color). If you need to refresh the suit, just hang it up inside a closed bathroom with the hot water shower running, as the steam will help to reinvigorate the wool fibres. Also, it’s a good investment to own a small handheld steamer so you can steam out wear wrinkles.
The next item is wrinkles. As just mentioned above, look into a hand held steamer so that you can steam/press your suit when it gets wrinkled. Or you can take it to a dry cleaner/tailor and ask for a suit pressing.
Please DO NOT IRON your suit. Tailors/cleaners use a special teflon iron that won’t burn the material. A normal household iron can likely create a “shine” in the fabric, which is an irreversible condition.
Other than that, just keep your suit hanging on a good jacket hanger (optional trouser hanger press, but I like to just drape it over the bar on the jacket hanger) and it might be a good idea to keep cedar chips or mothballs in your closet if that’s an issue for you.
Do you do CMT (Customer provided fabric)
Yes, but only after you have ordered a suit using our house fabrics and are certain the pattern we have drafted for you fits how you like. We do not do CMT on first suits until we gauge that the sizing and fit we have for you is correct and to your liking. This way, if we have to remake any part of your garment, we can do so without running into the risk of not being able to get more of your custom sourced fabric. The cost of CMT orders is $450 once you’ve sourced the material and ship it to us at your cost (or have it shipped to us directly from whomever you sourced the cloth if it’s an online seller)
I am local to Los Angeles, can I meet you to take my measurements and look at fabrics?
Yes I will meet with prospective clients to take their measurements and show fabric and suit samples. At the moment, sizing runs up to 46″ measured chest only, if your chest measures around larger than 46″ you will be outside of my size range. Meetups are done in at two locations, depending on the day of week. Weekday Mon – Fri I am usually available at my office in the City of Azusa, near the 210/605 during business hours of 8am – 3:30pm. If that does not work for your schedule I also do Saturday in the San Gabriel area of SoCal (approx 10-15 min from downtown) at 9am or after. There is no commitment to purchase if you meet for a measurement/sample showing, and measurement meetups are free of charge. Saturday meetups can be booked full up to 1-2 weeks in advance so keep that in mind if you are going to be here from out of town. All local meetups are done at my discretion of availability, so not all days are guaranteed to be available. It is encouraged that you take your traffic patterns of where you’re coming from, and plan accordingly to arrive 5-10 min before our scheduled appointment time. The average meetup takes about 15-25 minutes depending on how many questions one has.
What suit sizes do you make?
There is nearly no “too small” size. As for the upper end, the largest sizing we accommodate is a measured 46″ around the chest. The reason we do not make a larger size, initially Thick as Thieves was made for slimmer men who could not find anything that fit correctly OTR as everything was geared towards larger sized guys (even in smaller sizes). We do no feel our pattern grades well past a 46″ chest so therefore we do not offer anything larger, in order to maintain our aesthetic and quality of fit.
What are some popular customizations that clients do?
- Angled pockets on jacket (Hacking pockets)
- Patch pockets (with or without flap) for side and/or breast pockets
- Topstitched lapels/pockets (swelled seams) which are standard for all patch pockets
- Single vent (double vent is default)
- “Sack” style construction (undarted), but this method of construction means less jacket waist tapering, so recommended for those with more columnar build (6″ drop or less), not for those who have a large chest – waist difference.
- Side tab adjuster to replace belt loops, either buckle or 2-button style.
- Cuffs on trousers (we like 2″ cuffs)
- Unpadded jacket shoulders (by default we use a small amount of padding). Keep in mind if you do not have fairly square shoulders nor good posture, that unpadded jackets might not look the best on you. Most guys tend to need a small amount of padding in our experience. On the flip side, we can also do heavier padding if you feel your physiology requires that to maintain a good balance.
What won’t you make?
Please do not email with photos or links asking if I can copy “____”. Thick as Thieves has its own aesthetic, if you are looking to copy something then I suggest getting the actual maker rather than trying to copy it. Or use one of many other “internet tailors” out there who will make anything you want. No, there are none I can recommend as I have not personally used any. We don’t do 3-piece suits (with vest). Why? I have never liked vests, and our underlying motto has always been “if I wouldn’t wear it myself, we won’t sell it”.
Can I order separates?
Yes. If you would like a jacket only, or a pair of trousers only, we can do that for you. Jackets will range from $360 – $450 depending on fabric. Trousers range from $200 – $220 depending on fabric. Please note that if you decide you want the other half (ie: a pair of trousers to go with your jacket) later in the future, there is the chance that the fabric you originally ordered may be out of stock, or the current bolt of the same cloth can be a shade different to where it might be just barely noticeably different when worn with the original garment. This former point also pertains to those who want to order a 2nd trouser (for example) in the future, there is the small chance of fabric color variance that can exist from bolt to bolt of cloth in the same color.
Do you give refunds if I don’t like my suit?
As this is a custom process, we do not offer refunds. However we are willing to work with whatever we need to do to make your suit fit to your liking.
If you ordered online, sight unseen, and picked a fabric you think you will like, and in reality do not like the fabric whether the color wasn’t to your expectation, you didn’t like the fabric hand etc, we’re sorry but that is not a refundable situation. We do offer to mail out free sample swatches of fabrics if you need to see/feel in real life before ordering.
If you are extremely concerned about fit, it is our opinion that ANY sight unseen MTM suit program will probably not be to your satisfaction and that you should pursue a true bespoke process that involves multiple fittings.
I gained/lost weight, can my suit be tailored to fit my new size?
All jackets and trousers are made with enough seam allowance to let in/out about half-full size smaller/larger.
-Chest and gut can be let out about .75″ via the center seam which is almost a full size larger. It can be taken in smaller 1 full size as well.
-Length can be shortened 1″ without disrupting the jacket button and pocket position.
-Skirt can be reduced if you are experiencing jacket skirt “flare”. Typically reducing the skirt 1 – 1.5″ around in circumference will eliminate such flare.
-Sleeve can be lengthened up to 1″, and shorted as needed on nonfunctional cuff sleeves. Sleeve can still be lengthened up to about 1/2″ with functional cuffs but a new buttonhole will need to be cut so it’s important your tailor is very skilled. Functional cuff sleeves cannot be easily shortened more than 1/4″.
-Shoulder width can actually be reduced up to 1″ on each side. This requires a very skilled tailor to do it properly, but it’s do-able and I have had it done.
-Waistband, hips and thighs can be let out via center seam and/or side seams about a full size larger. It can be taken in smaller 1 full size as well.
-Inseam is the easiest part to alter, all trousers have enough allowance fabric to lengthen up to 1.5″ and shorten as much as needed.
-Front rise is not adjustable.
Can I customize from within your default design?
Thick as Thieves offers a very specific aesthetic and feel that the best results are those that don’t deviate from it, however we are happy to slightly alter the design to accommodate more conservative clients.
- Notch lapel width can be widened up to 3″ (4″ on larger end sizes). We will not make notch lapels wider than 3″ unless your jacket is the largest fit (44-46) in which case lapels can be widened to 4″ to preserve balance. Peak lapels, due to their shape, can be made to 3.75″ (4.5″ for size 44-6) wide. Wider lapels than this are antithetical to the Thick as Thieves aesthetic.
- Jacket length can be lengthened or shortened. Contrary to popular belief, there is no standard jacket length. Length is determined by the wearer”s height and arm length and is intended to be shorter than normal, ending approx 2-3″ below the wrist level. We will lengthen the jacket to be closer to normal by request. (Usually by adding 1-2″ to the length). Button placement is done in relation to the jacket length so if we lengthen (shorten) the jacket, the buttoning points will be adjusted to reflect the change in cut. Some gentlemen have longer/shorter arms in relation to their torso, in which case a “what will look best” approach is taken, so some jackets will have a shorter/longer length than what would normally be done to accommodate such physiques.
- Trousers only have one rear pocket on wearer’s right side. We can add a 2nd upon request.
- Trousers have belt loops. We can put side tabs (either buckle or button) instead of loops. We can also add suspender/braces buttons inside the waistband if you plan to wear button braces. Keep in mind for the side tab option, buckle side tabs are functional in actually tightening the waist as needed, but the 2 button side tab is purely aesthetic, and while the side tabs do function (as in, you can move the tab and latch onto each button), they cannot be used in a real life application to tighten the waist (since small incremental adjustments are not possible with button side tabs). That said, most opt for the button side tab option rather than buckle side tab.
- Ticket pocket on jackets can be removed so you only have the 2 main pockets at the side.
- 3 Button jackets can be made with a 3/roll2 lapel that is intended to button at middle only.
- You can mix/match features from within house designs. ie: You can have a peak lapel one button jacket with horizontal pockets, or a 2 button notch lapel jacket with angled pockets, as 2 examples. A popular hybrid is a traditional porportion cut jacket, but with the house cut trouser and more leg taper.
Do you make suits for women?
Thick as Thieves is a men’s style suit clothier. That said, if you are a woman, and want to wear a man’s suit, we can do that for you. As far as a traditional woman’s suit, that is not something we offer as we prefer to admire, than attire, the female form. ;)
Do you make shirts?
Not at the moment. Originally when we started Thick as Thieves, there were quite a good number of online shirt tailors that provided good quality shirts at affordable prices, and there are probably even more now. So we felt that was a segment that was well represented. When asked where to get a good shirt, aside from many of the online shirt resources, we do like to recommend some larger brands like Brooks Brothers, since they offer a wide array of size and style/colors, generally are well made, offer varying fits that will work with most men, and is at a pricepoint that is affordable for most, especially when taken advantage of at sale time.
What shipping service do you use?
All CONUS orders are shipped free via USPS Priority Mail with tracking. Once your suit ships, you will receive a tracking number emailed to you so you can track its delivery. Most orders will arrive within 1-2 days of shipping. Some locations will arrive 3 days of shipping. If you need it shipped next day, we can arrange that via Fedex or UPS. If you have a user account number we can use that to ship your suit next day, otherwise we will add the cost of next day shipping.
Orders outside of the USA will ship USPS EMS with tracking. EMS transit time can vary wildly from 3 days up to 2-3+ weeks depending on your country/city. Customs into your country can also add to the transit time if there is an issue in customs. While we strive to make sure all forms are filled out thoroughly and correctly, sometimes packages can be randomly pulled for closer inspection which will add to the delivery time. The cost of non-USA shipping is currently high due to USPS rates, which range from $50-60 that will be added to the cost of your suit order (this shipping price includes factoring in our free local shipping cost into your overseas cost). All nonUSA orders will be shipped as a “gift” with low dollar amount to minimize any customs charges, and for the most part, none of our overseas clients are hit with a customs charge, but if it does happen that is up to the client to pay your country’s duty charge and Thick as Thieves cannot be held liable or responsible in such cases where a customs charge incurs.